Call to Action Buttons

Realtors vs. Appraisers

Monday, January 23, 2012

By: Thomas Inserra

Dear NAR:

I have been a NAR member since 1984.  Having completed hundreds of NAR, Realtor and Real Estate classes since then – ALL with a very positive feedback, I am writing to express my serious concerns about the recent NAR seminar “Productive Engagement with Appraisers” which fell very far short of NAR educational quality standards.

This seminar contained grossly biased, incorrect and misleading information and if seminar participants were to follow the advice rendered, they would be violating very serious federal and state laws and regulations designed to prohibit compromise of appraiser independence.  Let me be more specific in articulating my concerns.

Those who presented the seminar were attempting to address the recent rise in instances when the independent value conclusions of appraisers varied with agent value estimates or prices negotiated by buyers and sellers.  The two (incorrect) presumptions made by the presenters is that this is a “problem” rather than a reflection of market conditions and it also presumes that the appraiser’s independent and objective conclusions are “wrong”.   The seminar also gives the false impression that agents can and should negotiate values with appraisers by outlining how to do that by supplying comps designed to arrive at a higher value and also gives the false impression that agents can affect a lender’s selection of appraisers in loan transactions.

In my market area, over the past year as an appraiser our appraisal business has appraised approximately 35% of all sale transactions below the agent estimate or pending sales price.  As a result, I can confirm that this does constitute a noticeable increase over prior years.

In each of approximately 80 transactions appraised below the pending sales price, agents were notified in advance prior to completion of the appraisal and afforded an opportunity to submit Comparable sales in an attempt to support the sales price.  In each transaction - agents submitted between 2 and 20 sales for consideration with an average of 6 sales submitted for each property.  Without exception, 100% of the sales submitted (about 500 sales provided by agents) actually supported the lower appraised value and not a single sale supported the higher proposed price.  Even more disturbing, upon interview of participants in the transaction, the appraiser observed a very high increase in the number of transactions where parties to the transaction were related to or had some connection to the agents involved.   

“Price” is much more likely to equal value when transactions are truly arms-length transactions, but the large increase in transactions to related parties has likely had an effect, which naturally will increase the rate of disparity between price and value.  Given the large decline in price levels, we are finding many sellers/owners are in denial about price levels.  In one example, our appraisal contained a list of 50 sales and listings located within one mile of the subject property with all 50 having prices lower than the pending sale transaction without a single sale or listing priced at or above the pending sale.  These market facts clearly demonstrated and confirmed the pending sales prices simply was not supported with factual market data.

In my view, in nearly 100% of the cases where agents submitted Comps which they thought or had hoped demonstrated a higher value, that those sales actually demonstrated and supported a lower value indicates that the true disparity between agents and appraisers is driven by two key factors.  This suggests there is a difference in how agents price properties and how appraisers estimate “Market Value” and indicates there are two primary drivers for the difference between agents and appraisers:

1.    The difference between advocacy and objectivity/independence; and
2.    Differences between how agents are taught to value property and appraisers are taught to value property.

I was very disappointed that this seminar failed to address either of these 2 items for if the true reason is to help agents understand and cope with value disparity, the seminar clearly fell way short and by failing to address the true drivers was therefore inadequate and misleading. 

With regard to item #1:   I am disappointed the seminar failed to discuss the difference and conflicting objectives and legal requirements of agents versus appraisers and how that goes a long way to explain differences in opinion.  For example, the foundational principle of being an agent is the legally binding fiduciary requirements of an agent to be an advocate to one or more party of the transaction.  If for example, the agent represents the interests of the seller, they would be required to be an advocate for the sellers desired interest of selling the property for the highest amount possible.  Conversely, a buyer agent would be required to be an advocate for the buyer’s interest to help buy the property at the lowest possible price.  Another inherent conflict between the role of agents versus appraisers is that agents being compensated on commission only get paid if the transaction closes, so there is a natural bias and advocacy need to take action aimed at getting deals closed, even if that means the price is not truly reflective of market conditions.  

Appraisers on the other hand have the exact opposite legal requirement.  Appraisers are legally and ethically required NOT to be an advocate for their party.  Appraisers are not permitted to be purposely high or purposely low when rendering market value estimates and must be objective, non-biased and free of advocacy.   Appraisers are precluded from taking action simply to help a deal close and rather must stand firm when factual market data indicates a pending price is not supported by factual market data.  Another major distinction is that while appraisers are legally required to estimate “Market Value”, while agents typically render BPOs price estimates.  Price estimates and Market Value estimates are not the same nor is the methodology for arriving at each the same.   

I’ve attached three articles describing how the legal obligations of agents when rendering price estimates is notably different than the legal requirements of an appraiser and how to resolve the conflict between “Advocacy” required of agents versus the “Independence and Non-Advocacy” required of appraisers.  Frankly, NAR needs to do a better job of educating agents and the public about the two types of value estimates in the USA:  Advocated value estimates and non-advocated value estimates and how they differ.  There is no true “battle” between agents and appraisers because they each are fulfilling different yet important roles in the real estate transaction and increased knowledge and understanding of the difference between the two roles is necessary and thus needs to be addressed in the seminar.  Agents render Price estimates as an advocate to one or more party in the transaction while Appraisers render independent, objective and non-advocated Market Value estimates.  The seminar needs to address the conflicting duties of each to improve understanding.

With regard to item #2:  I am disappointed the seminar failed to address a notable flaw in how agents are (incorrectly) taught to value properties.  Because the role of agents is to be an advocate for the transaction, rather than taking the objective approach of looking at market data both higher and lower than their proposed transaction, 100% of the Comps supplied by agents were selected solely because they appeared to support a higher price.  The most common technique employed by agents, was simply to find the highest priced sales and listings and to send those to the appraiser, with inadequate attention to how similar that property actually was to the home being valued.  Another common technique employed by agents was to simply select those comps with the highest price/SF which invariably means smaller sized homes were selected.  There is a proven economic principle known as “diminishing marginal utility” which agents seem to be unaware.  Most agents I know when valuing a home simply take the size and multiply it by a price/Sf and that is a very flawed approach because it fails to account for diminishing marginal utility and fails to account for other differences which might exist among the properties.  Another economic concept that appears to be a mystery to agents is the concept of “contributory value”.   When making adjustments for differences between properties, agents tend to apply cost while appraisers are required to utilize market based contributory values.  For example, when valuing a brand new home a builder might want to include the full cost of a $28,000 swimming pool, while in our Arizona market the contributory value of a pool may only be a $12,000 impact on “Market Value”.  Thus, to improve the understanding of the difference between agent advocated prices and independent/objective appraised values, the seminar must address the flawed methodology employed by agents to improve the accuracy in their market based rather than advocated price estimates.

Finally, I’d like to express my serious concern about 2 inadvertent takeaways from the seminar which give the false and very dangerous impression that:

1.    Appraised values are negotiable when agents believe appraisers are low;
2.    That agents can impact or change the selection of appraisers or have the right to evaluate the appraiser’s credentials

Most appraisals are ordered by lenders in connection with a loan transaction.  Federal regulations specifically prohibit negotiation of appraised values or any contact by agents aimed at obtaining a higher value estimate.  In fact, in our state, such action under ARS 32-3633 would be classified as a Class 6 Felony.  With regard to selection of the appraiser, federal banking regulations PROHIBIT the selection of appraisers on the basis of complaints or requests of agents or parties to the transaction and specifically require the lender to make the sole selection in their best judgment.   Thus, the seminars suggestion that agents should be evaluating the credentials of appraisers and taking agent designed to affect the selection of the appraiser would also constitute illegal activity.  If the agent is successful at impacting the selection of the appraiser and the loan on that property ultimately goes bad, the agent would potentially face very serious civil and criminal charges for interfering with the independence of the appraisal process. 

Appraisers can NOT be independent if agents are permitted to have an impact on appraiser selection, nor can appraisers be independent if agents view their role as negotiating values with appraisers when appraised values differ with those of agents.  Thus, while it may not have been an intended seminar objective, perhaps an unintended consequence of the seminar is that it incorrectly attempts to corrupt the independent role of appraisers and frankly, that is not only unethical, it is illegal.

What is necessary to successfully address the variance between independent and objective appraised values is improved understanding of the important objective and non-advocate roles of appraisers and for agents to respect that role by NOT negotiating values and NOT trying to affect appraiser selection.

Finally, I would like to address a recent flawed study performed by NAR that appeared to be biased purposely to blame appraisers for declining price levels and to help mislead the public about the role appraisers play. 

As a NAR member, I took the survey in my capacity as an agent.  I was very surprised and alarmed that among all the possible answers to the survey  - they all blamed appraisers rather than market conditions.  Having a choice to indicate that this was simply a function of market forces wasn’t even an option, which means the only possible outcome of the survey was to blame appraisers since no other choices were available in the survey question.  Shame on you.

It is important to note that in our market, even disregarding distressed sale transactions, that Phoenix was #2 in the nation in the rate of value and price declines.  It is also important to note that the rate of homeownership both nationally and locally has been declining rapidly demonstrating lower levels of demand for housing than in years past.  Those decreased levels of demand along with unemployment are in fact driving price reductions.  It is also very important to note that about 40% of the homes and transactions in the Phoenix area are mortgage free and thus their final negotiated prices are unaffected by appraisals.   Thus, it is grossly misleading to the public to suggest that appraisers are to blame for declining price levels when in fact these declining price levels are the result of market dynamics and are NOT being caused by appraisers.  Appraisers are merely reporting the facts about what is happening in the market.   Shame on NAR for giving the public the false perception that declining prices and lost deals are the fault of appraisers. A more balanced and fact based approach is necessary along with one that recognizes the important role that a non-advocated party plays in confirming that negotiated prices are arms-length and truly reflective of market conditions.

NAR realized after the Great Depression that having only “advocated” values led to a dangerous and unsustainable price bubble that was found to be a major contributing factor to the Great Depression.  To help correct the abuses of advocacy and to establish “balance” and sustainability, NAR invented the appraisal profession and from 1929 to 1994 declared that it is a conflict of interest for agents to render valuations for lenders.  NAR needs to re-establish its credibility by reaffirming the need for total independence and objectivity by again stating that it is inappropriate for agent advocates to render values for loan transactions because of an inherent conflict of interest.  NAR needs to again recognize the important need for a non-advocated appraiser to ensure transactions are market supported, arms-length and sustainable because that is the only way to prevent dangerous price bubbles which lead to huge financial crisis.

As CEO of We Value America, LLC, I provide a considerable amount of expert witness testimony to evaluate the Standards of Care and conduct of agents, lenders and appraisers.  In my view, this NAR seminar inadvertently encourages unethical and illegal conduct and thus should be significantly revised, updated and corrected to meet NAR’s educational quality standards.

Thank you for the opportunity to provide feedback on NAR’s recent appraisal seminar.

Links: 
•    “Advocacy vs Independence”  http://www.appraisalbuzz.com/advocacy-vs-independence
•    “Appraiser Neutrality and Public Policy”  http://www.appraisalbuzz.com/appraiser-neutrality
•    “Anatomy of a Real Estate Bubble”  http://www.appraisalbuzz.com/Anatomy-of-Real-Estate-Bubble
•    “Anatomy of an Appraisal Fee”  http://www.appraisalbuzz.com/anatomy-of-appraisal-fee

About the Author:
Thomas Inserra has 26 years’ experience as the highest ranking collateral risk expert, as CEO or other executive roles at: 2 international banks, 2 global insurers, 2 federal agencies, and 2 international consulting firms.   He has served as a Credit Committee member of 13 financial institutions with assets of $21 billion and has reviewed tens of thousands of loan files in connection with his work during 3 major banking crisis – including 2 crisis in the USA and 1 in Asia helping both government agencies and private sector financial institutions to address losses caused by real estate loan losses.  This unique experience has allowed Mr. Inserra to identify lending patterns and common collateral risk characteristics that ultimately led to large loan losses at more than 500 financial institutions with total assets exceeding $500 billion.  As the leader of a 700 employee U.S. subsidiary of a global insurer he was accountable for managing and insuring risk exposures of a $1 trillion real estate loan portfolio for 12 of the nation’s largest banks.  He also served as CEO of a publicly traded technology company which invented and then successfully received a U.S. patent for innovative collateral risk scoring that applies mathematical risk scores similar to a FICO score to help measure real estate collateral risk exposures. 

Mr. Inserra has a BS degree from Purdue University, an MBA degree and both the MAI and SRA appraisal designations.  He has participated in more than 100 public speeches, media appearances and news interviews including ABC News, CNN, MoneyTV, BNN, National Mortgage News, Washington Post and many others including of course the highlight of his career – frequent articles published for “The Appraisal Buzz” and “Collateral Risk Network - CRN”.  Currently, he serves as CEO of We Value America LLC and Pinnacle Peak Advisors LLC advising financial institutions, government agencies, attorneys, insurers and other clients on a wide range of lending and collateral risk exposures, litigation, Standards of Care issues and expert witness services.

 

Catch our upcoming Webinar with Thomas J. Inserra on Collateral Risk Management, February 15th, 2012. Click Here to learn more.

Comments

NAR Classes in conflict with the truth

The truth is that the agent helps make the market and the appraiser report's the market. Nothing more or nothing less. Agent advocates-Appraiser does not.  Appraisers are similar to what journalists are supposed to be.  Report the story. don't be a part of it.  Degree in journalism and 46 years experience as an appraiser.  To say that I may have seen this before, doesn't even come close.

Well Said

Nice job delineating the differences between Realtors and Appraisers.  When brokers have submitted additional comps, we have noticed the same pattern: every sale offered had a selling price higher than the "target" value.  After adjustment, however, they often indicate a lower value for the subject compared to our original appraised value.  Fortunately, however, our market in Wisconsin never had the wild swings of the "hot" markets, so purchase money mortgage loan appraisals below selling price are unusual.

I Agree

AMEN

thank you, thank you, thank you

Most importantly, let me say: thank you, thank you , thank you!!!So well put and I certainly hope someone will listen.Are you listening out there?As an appraiser of over 18 years, I have obviously had to maintain a subscription for MLS which has to go through a Realtor membership...all of the years of receiving Realtor anti-appraiser emails has really worn thin (of course, it is assumed that all members are real estate agents when  appraisers' applications on file make it obvioust hat there are appraiser memebers...) What I have always failed to understand is that as appraisers we have to know not only our methodology of arriving at an opinion of value, but also how real estate agents approach their price opinions form their end AND we appraisers have to understand the mortgage side of the transaction; BUT, it has always appeared that neither the real estate agents nor the mortgage brokers/lending officers have never been required to understand how we are to act as appraisers!!! I hope what you have writen has been read and understood by a great many!  

Have you walked a mile?

I think someone has a different agenda here rather than complaining about a class!  First, as an appraiser for 20 years and a broker for the past 8 years, let me say I have become a better appraiser since I became an active real estate broker.  Over the years I have learned a lot about the local real estate market from good very active realtors who are deep in the trenches and understand their immediate market niche better than any other appraiser ever will.  They hear it first hand from the owners and buyers about what they want and what they are willing to spend.   I think like any industry you are going to have bad apples and that is the things you hear about.  I for one know for sure that bad appraisals have actually killed deals because of their lack of knowledge.  So if you haven't walked a mile in a man shoes then don't judge him!No one even mentioned that the Author admits that 35% of the sales appraised were below the sales price.  HELLO, I think the market is trying to tell you something!!!!!!!  This just goes to show you that he is not listening to the market; he is listening to the media hype about how bad the market is doing.  Also, it's clear he knows nothing about the role of a buyer’s agent's responsibilities, as nowhere does it say or promote that a buyer’s agent is to help the buyer get the home at the lowest price or that the selling agent is to get the highest price.  Doesn’t have a clue!I think it's funny that he puts this article in and at the bottom of the page is an advertisement to pay $49 for his seminar.  Mr. Inserra, I think it is time for you to put on some new shoes and do some walking!

Have You Walked a Mile?

I always like to discuss issues with someone who is so proud of their work that they sign it anonymous.  What are your credentials except you have had some sales queered by appriasals not meeting the sale price.  I find it very interesting that someone can find much fault with what Mr. Inserra has stated.  I agree with almost everything he said except he didn't say it strong enough.  The bottom line is the Real Estate Sales folks want value to meet price and the heck with anything else.   I, too, am a certified general appraiser and a Real Estate Broker, active in Oklahoma in both trades since 1984 and in Ohio as an agent in 1977-80.  Why can't folks just do their real estate sales thing and allow the system to flow through the appraisal process.  If the appraiser has truly booted it, then gather the facts as seen and file a grievance.  Then get behind the complaint and press it if it has merit.  Don't accept no for an answer if you are right. I get tired of being called immediately after an appraisal has been booked with all the great comparable sales the agents have found only to find that they are in a superior neighborhood, different quality, different amenities, etc.  If we don't use their comps, then we have failed to do our job. I could go on and on, but I have found NAR to be nothing but one of the largest unions in existence and money is their main game, to heck with getting things corrected and why wouldn't they want to be critical of appraisers when they are in the pocket of all the real estate folks.   I get furious and sick at the stomach when I hear their name.  I tried them again for the past 3 years and they could care less about my small city, my small business, the fact I have some agents that don't have sufficient income to support paying membership and MLS dues to them and the state and local offices who truly could care less.  Yet,  I can't belong unless they do.  I want my folks to have some flexibility in membership.  If I have to comply with state licensing (responsible to the public) and financial soundness, what great improvement does NAR provide.  Oh, training like Mr. Inserra reported where they missed the mark.  NAR, hold my feet to the fire and make me responsible for my agents too. I am through with NAR and they can continue to pull the wool over their high riding cadillac and mercedes folks. Listen to what the writer is saying.  He is right on, and  all of us who are involved in moving real estate better get on the same page if we expect our industries to remain viable.    Donald H. Justice

Reply

I own BOTH an appraisal business AND a real estate brokerage businesses and have for many years.  I have walked in both shoes and in fact have been a licensed agent far longer than a licensed appraiser.   I guess if one can't argue with the content of my message, that leaves no other choice but to come after me personally.  That's pretty weak and in my experience, when one descends to attacking the messenger rather than the message, thats a sign the battle is already lost...

Realtors vs Appraisers - a reply

Thomas - of the 35% of appraisals you've conducted for purchase transactions that didn't "hit the number", how many of those were renegotiated and ultimately closed?  Over 24 years I've experienced many such cases where the buyer simply came to the table with extra cash to close at the original contract price.  Those transactions then become the next "comp" for the neighborhood . . . not at my appraised value . . . but at the "inflated" sale price.  The only number in the public record is the sale price.  Does the Realtor have a duty to disclose the fact that the appraisal didn't support it?  Perhaps it's time to track appraised values in a proprietary database accessable to licensed appraisers and Realtors.  More than anything else that would assist appraisers in understanding the outliers, and prevent a "piling on" of inflated values on an entire neighborhood due to one overzealous transaction.

Realtor vs Appraisers - a reply

No that is how markets move. If the buyer is willing to come to the table with more money, than he voted with his or her feet and made the dicision that the market should be higher. Those are valid comps for an upward moving market. The bigger issue is that most prices in our market are inflated to cover buyer's closing costs. That is not a function of real property, that is a function of financing and should be discounted back to cash equivalency. At that point the sale becomes just a valid as the one where the buyer was willing to pay more for the property. It also works in reverse in a declining market where sellers are willing to drop their prices.

That's why I don't appraise

That's why I don't appraise houses anymore....  As a broker, I have had two transactions fall thru recently due to appraisals that were at the extreme low end of the sales data range.  The last deal busted out over a few thousand dollars.  The buyer and seller were looking at me to lower my commission, but I held my ground....  My advice for brokers is to never take a listing at the top of the range or negotiate a deal for your buyer at the highest price allowed by the comps.

Scapegoating never improved values.

Yes, the current appraised value may come in at the low end of the sales data range simply because all closed sales are history, past tense, and there exists a continuing downward trend along with that fact. Why are people surprised? That's life and no one is exempt. As a credentialed professional as broker, appraiser and formerly a deputy assessor I strongly urge all people in real estate to educate the public as to what is real out there and not stir high expectations. This is a bad time to sell and homeowners are best staying put until conditions improve. If one must sell then, please, be ready for the consequences as scapegoating has never made the world a better place or improved market values.

Realtors vs. Appraisers

Excellent points Tom. I am unfamiliar with this seminar but I get the gist of the seminar and the survey that you are referring to. As a real estate appraiser, real estate broker and consultant for over 35 years I can see both pros and cons with both professions. As an appraiser I've had to do battle in numerous occasions with real estate brokers that feel I have been conservative in my value opinion. As a real estate broker I've had to question appraisers methodology, comp selection, adjustments, theory and technique. The price that a home sells for and ultimately is reported in the multiple listing service can differ greatly from an opinion of market value derived by an appraiser. In my opinion, part of the problem is the fact that these two price points are out of sync. This creates tremendous controversy and inconsistency from many areas. One particular, would be cash equivalency. The appraiser might consider excessive seller contributions, excessive loan discount points, one year free HOA dues, golf course memberships, non-escrowed taxes, seller financing, etc. as items that would require negative adjustments where the real estate broker sees all these items as benefits to increase the sales price. On the other hand, I might have sold the nicest house in the neighborhood that was completely renovated and the mortgage appraiser routinely tells me that he or she cannot hit the sales price or value because their client (bank, underwriters, Fannie Mae guidelines, loan officer, etc.) will not accept the appraisal report because of large adjustments that might need to be made and not being able to find a sale at the same price to use as a comp. If I'm successful as a real estate broker closing that deal, that same appraiser, the following day, after not being able to justify my sales price, will easily, and without thinking, turn around and use my sale as a comparable on another appraisal. In other words in a 24-hour period, the appraised value can escalate $50,000 because that mortgage appraiser now has my close sale. Although there's no doubt that real estate agents and brokers need some additional market training, I believe the real estate appraisal community needs a reboot as well.  Frank J. Lucco, SRA, CRP

Good points

About 40% of the listings in our MLS eventually expire without selling. That means that approximately 40% of all listings are overpriced to begin with. That's how bad Realtors are at pricing properties and it's rather ironic how they think they are geniuses when it comes to the appraised value.

Realtors vs. Appraisers

As always, Mr. Inserra has done a very good job of articulating issues and differences in the subject material.I'd suggest further more explanation of what a Lender asks of an Appraiser.  In this market (and as it should be), a Lender is simply asking at what price, in the event that they have to quickly take a property back, the property would effectively compete in a market (Principal of Substitution, which is unfortunately not well understood by Realtors), and an estimate of the time to liquidate a non-performing asset.  As Mr. Inserra well points out, these considerations are not part of a Realtor's obligations...but they are the underpinnings of an Appraiser's responsibilities to the Lender client.Good commentary! Tom Chambers 

Appraisers v. Brokers

Very good commentary, Mr. Inserrra. However, a point you touched on needs to be expanded.So called "buyer agents" receive a portion of the commission paid by the SELLER. It does not pass the smell test to claim they are providing a fiduciary duty to the buyer, who wants to get the most property for the lowest price, when the agent's self-interest is to get the buyer to pay the price that meets the seller's needs.Simply checking a box on the P&SA indicating that the agent is representing the buyer should be challenged.  In any other contract situation, the fiduciary duty is owed to the person paying the fee.

Realtors Vs Appraisers

Well spoken Thomas.......agents have one priority........ make the sale happen and move-on to the next one.  Like wise in my market I see alot a buyers related to agents.........most of them are REO properties paid for by cash.....and two months laters......they're back on the market all spruced up.....often doubled in price.....with very little updating other than fresh paint, carpet and new appliances.   This is a big problems and the main reason why agents should not be employed in doing BPO's.   

Reply for Inserra's commentary/letter to NAR

As with the other commenter, I have been a Certified General Appraiser since the FIRREA-mandated separation, and continue to maintain my broker's license, originally obtained in 1978, after a short licensee period, with employment as a mortgage and branch manager for banks and savings and loans for the prior 11 years.  I too wish to say "thanks" for a well-done piece, but one comment (or term, really) made several times sticks out as contradictory to the point of the article:  The word "estimate" should no longer be in our vocabulary as appraisers; the proper term is "opinion of value", as the term "estimate of value" apparently implies greater precision..  I'm also aware that the National Association of Homebuilders is also to be taken to the woodshed for their commentary about "Appraisers ruining the market..." for new homes because of "faulty appraisals".  Be very careful!  Bill Bain, Newport, Oregon.

Appraisers vx. Realtors

Having been a broker-in-charge and a certified residential appraiser who appraises full time for 25 years, our author has it nailed.  The problem:  Realtors are NOT interested in anything except getting their commission.  It is unfair to lump all realtors into this basket, but the reality is, most that sell full time (much less the part timer hobbist) are more concerned about getting the name on the contract, send them to the bank, hold their breath through the appraisal process, and get to the closing and collect their commission.  Inserra is exactly right, ask one of them to provide comps and they will consistently provide sales that indicate a lower value and have no clue why.   And most are not interested and certainly don't want a class where they learn, as this article shows.

Realtors vs appraisers -reply to Thomas Inserra

 Very well written comment Thomas.  However, as a broker and appraiser (state certified general) for 33 years, I can assure you, it is, and will always be, "us versus them."  It's just human nature.  Our goals (as appraisers) are exactly the opposite of the sales people.  We're being as objective and detached as possible, trying not to get into trouble. The agents and brokers are fully financially and emotionally engaged, trying to close a deal to feed their families.  Additionally, do not forget, we (as appraisers) get paid either way.  Thus, we're able to be emotionally detached.  But agents and brokers are depending on these deals closing, for their bread and butter.  To be frank about it, we're like accountants and analysts.  We measure, but we don’t really contribute to things happening in real estate.   The agents and brokers are engaging in real commerce.  They're making things happen, economically.  Cut'em some slack.     

"cut them some slack"

Nonsense, cut them some slack!  They (agents) are on the attack here, not us (appraisers).  Have you seen any articles in any publication in which the appraisers are attacking agents valuations? 

Realtors vs. Appraisers

Thank you Mr. Inserra.  Very well articulated.  The foundation of a credible appraisal is objectivity, independence and thorough analysis.  There isn't room for haggling or negotiating with sales agents and property owners.  Those unfortunate practices lead to serious problems not solutions and place the appraiser and clients at risk.    

Inserra article

This article articulates what I've been thinking every time I read an article blaming appraisers for the debacle in the housing market. I too have been on both sides, as a salesman back in the good old days of 16 - 17% mortgage rates in the early 1980's, and the last 26 years as an appraiser. Appraisers, hear this: those dues and additional mandatory advertising assessments you are paying to NAR each year are not to benefit your business. When was the last time you saw a TV ad promoting NAR appraisers? NAR is in the business of promoting churning in the real estate market, in order to generate commissions to Realtor salespeople and brokers. Why else the endless and, recently revealed to be inaccurate, cheerleading by the chief NAR economist about what a great time it has been to buy a house, while values were still declining in most areas? That really does the buyer a great service. But, it is what it is. Keep working, do the job right, maintain your integrity, and your services will be in demand. The supply of appraisers is shrinking, so fees should start rising before too long. Hang in there!

Response to Inserra article

I started in real estate sales in 1977 and kept my broker's license until 1998.  I became a full time appraiser in 1983 and hold the General Certification in Texas and Arizona.  I know both sides of the Appraiser - Realtor situation and the big difference is the different definition of value both groups use.  Realtors have a fiduciary obligation to the seller to try to secure the highest possible selling price - that's their definition of value as well.  Appraisers are charged with identifying the most probable selling price - closer to the mddle of the value range. While NAR should encourage members to confirm that an appraiser does indeed have Geographic Competency and subject matter experience, that is all Realtors should do. Appraisers must provide an accurate, independent opinion of value based on the comparables that are the MOST similar to the subject property locationally, physically and functionally.Appraisers must provide the client with the truth, regardless of the direction of the market, so that informed decisions can be made. Lenders need to understand that selling prices and loan amounts should be based on the appraised value - NOT the other way around. Values in Arizona have dropped dramatically since 2006 while values in north Texas have remained stable for the most part.Whatever values are doing in a particular market, it's up to the appraiser to mirror that reality on each appraisal.  Not every transaction is going to close.Clearly, NAR knows (or should know) that supply & demand are the key forces in play and that Realtors and Appraisers cannot control this vast market force.The author has identified a challenge for the appraisal profession with great clarity.  Appraisers must teach Realtors how we work so that Realtors can then share with sellers the need to price each property to sell - and survive the mortgage appraisal process.Lyle F. Gallagher, IFA    

Inserra article

I too am tired of appraisers being blamed for causing the market to decline when all we do is report and interpret what the market is telling us.  I am familiar with the content of the presentation in question and I have a little different take on the intent of the section on appraiser selection.  Current regulations require an appraiser to have geographic competence.  I am sick to death of AMC's sending appraisers from markets 100 miles away because they will work for less than market rates.  I do not feel it is inappropriate for an agent to do whatever is necessary to see that an appraiser wanting access to a listing is competent to perform a credible appraisal.  The agent cannot and should not be able to choose or recommend a specific appraiser but they should be able to deny access and request someone competent to perform an unbiased, credible appraisal.  I don't feel it is illegal/unethical for an agent to ask me where my office is located, how many appraisals I have done in the subject area in the last year and if I am a member of the local MLS.  If an appraiser is from 100 miles away, comes to this market twice a year and has no access to market data that should raise a big red flag with the buyer, seller, lender, both agents and the Appraisal Board.  I have no problem with an agent bringing such a situation to the attention of the lender and demanding they send someone else.

Realtor Vs Appraiser

I agree appraisers should  have "Geographic Competency"....but I disagree with the agent being the policeman.  The client is the responsible person for choosing an appraiser with geographic competency and its the appraiser's responsibility to accept only assignments for which he/she have geographic competency.   The truth of the matter is that most agents price properties at the high end of the spectrum plus 6%.  Its the agent that should be policed because they owe it to their clients to recommend a price according to market expectations.   

NAR

Spot on! NAR cannot even get their sales stats right and seem to continue the cheerleading and Chamber of Commerce dialogue that ignores market conditions and the realities of the "Market". I suggest sending the article to the National Association of Homebuilders and the Mortgage Brokers as well. It is time the people realize the smoke NAR has been spewing is biased.

Realtor vs Appraisers

Thomas has another good article. Factual and well thought out. The point's made are valid and the overall message cannot be denied. However, in reality the system does not function to the letter of the law. The Realtor seminar that is the example here does have some elements of truth in this new reality.Realtors can affect the assignment of appraisers and the exclusion of some other appraisers. Large AMC's that are bank owned rely on providing the appraisal service for the fee generated. Whether or not the results meet the expectations of the commisioned parties is of no regard. If the valuation meets or exceeds contract price there are a number of methods to still deny that loan. The end result is the fee is still collected to the AMC and profit partership agreements allow the bank to share in the margin. The point is that the squeeze is on the middle man or appraiser who receives the least compensation for work completed to keep these people comming back with orders. Hence, rapid turn times (in itself and undue influence), scope creep, a litany of conditions, etc. are all meant to influence the appraisers conduct in one way or another. While behind the scenes the AMC or bank may send the appraiser an order with a "automated value" and confidence score attached. The number they belive is the value. Something Realtors should be aware of. Either way the appraiser is put in a position of  potential liability. It doesn't take much for a Realtor to complain to a bank panel manager, AMC manager or, Retail Loan Officer who DOES have some input on the rotating "approved list". While an appraiser may not be removed from the approved list they easily can be taken out of the rotation. After a point in time they then can be removed for being "inactive". For a small AMC the pressure is equally difficult for the individual appraiser as those companies are trying to compete for fee margin as well. I have seen Realtors keep lists of appraisers that they do not wish to have work on any of their deals. Access to the property can be delayed, contracts incomplete, incomplete or incorrect data forwarded are all tactics used to delay the appraisers work product with the intention of having that appraiser give up the assignment or complete it late. Knowing one of the AMC's cardinal rules is Turn Time Realtors find this an effective tactic. After a few times that AMC will realize that a particular appraiser just cannot meet expectations for this criteria and there goes a rotation assignment and in the future a probable drop altogether for "inactivity".To soften this effect AMC's will often increase the overall market coverage for an appraiser. If to many complaints are received in one particular market just move them over a county or two. After all they have demonstrated that they are ready and willing to go anywhere for less money. So they meet their clients expectation of fee margin. They know how the game is played. The constant shuffle also shows that the Lender/Bank/ AMC is "sympathetic " to the Realtors complaints and "that appraiser has been reassigned' (only to return at a later date).In fact the undue influence on appraisers is more than I have ever seen in 20 + years. Before the AMC for profit model became the de facto system individual appraisers could just tell mortgage brokers and loan officers "no". They in turn would have to get back on the phone and continue to call appraisers until they found one that would do as they asked. In any event it was a personal business decision made by individual appraisers which may have cost them one fee. Now the process is streamlined. The appraiser must agree to all conditions of employment, compensation and expectation of their Lender/Bank/Client or AMC prior to receiving the very first assignment. Mass infulence.I understand the Realtors frustration as they are trying to make a living as much as the appraiser is however, better education for the Realtor community is neeeded for them to fully understand exactly what kind of difficult situation the current system has placed the appraiser in. It is rare I see any appraisal education in either continuing education, or the NAR prescribed Realtor Code of Ethics every 4 years. I see lots of education on how to make extra money by being a "Certified BPO Specialist" but nothing  in years that would be helpfull to acheive true transparency. All appraisers have taken course where it is case study after case study how appraisers lost their certifications, received sanctions, paid liability claims or have gone to prison. Yes, loss of liberty. A lot to pay for "just an opinion'.Perhaps if the profit was taken away from providing valuation services, true appraiser independence regulations enforced, and some level of education was mandated for users of appraisal reports this new reality could be diminshed or completely curtailed. However, I don't see the Banks giving up this easy fee of almost pure profit without a fight and they don't fight fair. So Good Luck to all. To our Realtor partners I can only say; take an appraisal class, you"ll be glad you did. To my appraiser partners I can only say; try and spend more than 5 minutes at a property on inspection, even if its for show. Listen to all the parties, even if their information is not relevant, and try and educate at least one Realtor on one point if you can. That is best done when their is no commission on the line. Finally, let eh public kn ow whenever you can where we are at as a profession right now. Maybe things can change.

Elephant in the Room

Thank you for pointing out the obvious.  Mr. Inserra makes several good points, but he completely ignores the real problem.  HVCC/Dodd-Frank has created a regulatory environment where the best and most experienced appraisers are no longer adequately compensated and are fleeing the profession.  In their void are left the poorly trained and inexperienced appraisers or appraisers who in an effort to meet unreasonable turn times and assignment creep do not have the time to properly research the market and sales.  Several years ago I tried to get my local Board to understand and fight HVCC but they looked at me as if I had three heads.  Now they are starting to get it.  When will NAR start considering the issues of their appraiser members and use their vast lobbying resources to fight unjust regulations?

Realtors vs. Appraisers

As a NC Carolina appraiser who occasionally deals with realtors and has two realtors working in my office as appraisers, I've realized one major difference in the two professions.  Realtors are trained to "SELL."  They are not trained to do BPOs, they are not trained to adjust for differences, they are not trained to analyze market trends, they are not trained to do anything but "SELL."  They are sales people trained to move inventory by representing what is supposedly the best interest of their client.  However, it must be extremely difficult for a realtor not to include his or her own interest when the underlying impact of a selling price also impacts his or her wallet.  It is rather enticing to know that the higher price one can obtain in a sales transaction will benefit the realtor's profit margin, the precise reason appraisers cannot charge fees based on a percentage of value.  This, in my humble opinion, is a disparity that must change in order to bring the two professions in line.  As long a realtors are paid on percentage, the problems between us will continue to exist.

The continuing saga

Is anything EVER going to change, it does not seem so. This has been going on too long. I agree with the author and now that this has been said again, we will see, but......it seems the NAR saga continues as it has for years, but then what is new??? We can only hope they get it through their head that appraiser independence is to the NAR, a necessary evil.