Thursday , 3 December 2020

Never Had a Raise in 20 Years?

I hear it from various appraisers all the time, “We have not had a raise in 20 years! We are being paid the same amount per appraisal now as we were when I first started in this business.”

The funny thing is that it is said as if appraisers have no ability to control their own prices. Ever hear of the free market? Don’t get me wrong, I understand their point; there is not much free about the financial world anymore, but I just do not think it tells the whole story. Certainly, if you look at all the factors, it does not hold much water.

I first started in this business over 20 years ago. Things were much different than they are now. I am not quite old enough to have used a typewriter to construct my reports, but I did not come along much later. When I first began, computers were slow and crashed a lot (I guess some things never change). The Internet was almost unheard of (much less used for any research or appraisal work). Digital cameras were a future luxury and so were cell phones!

I began my appraisal career working in a lot of rural areas. When I say ‘rural,’ I am talking about the kinds of towns where you can drive through them at 35 mph, blink, and wonder why you never saw them. For me, a typical day was spent driving 90 minutes (one-way) to my appointment. I would inspect with a measuring wheel (or sometimes a 100 foot tape), a clipboard, and a film-camera (some of you don’t think that is funny because you still are). After the inspection, I would visit all (there were usually only one or two) the real estate offices in town. It was there I would have to continually grovel for sold information like a poor street urchin. If I could catch someone in the office, and they happen to be in a good mood, I might get a little information from them.

Usually, the information was sketchy at best. “Oh, I don’t know, Son. I think that one sold for around $200,000, but there was some haggling, so I am not sure what the final price was. It sold last month sometime, but I could not tell you the day. Square footage? Hell, I don’t know. It was big though.”

Technically you are right, we are getting ‘paid’ the same (or roughly the same) fees we were when we first began. However, I do not know about you, but I certainly have had a raise. In fact, I have had several of them over the years. In the beginning, I think it took me an average of 2 days (16 business hours) to complete a full appraisal. By the time I received the order, set up the appointment, drove to the subject, inspected, dug up comp information (several hours on just that one alone), took pictures, dropped them off at the one-hour photo, typed the report, copied a map from the phone book and splashed stickers from Forms and Worms® on it, picked up the pictures from the one-hour photo, glued them on the report (no, I am not kidding), made two copies and overnighted them to the client (at my expense), it was a full, two-days, and I did it all by myself. Today, my staff and I can complete many times that without compromising quality. Even after paying for the latest and greatest hardware and software as well as paying my staff, I come out far ahead of where I was 20 years ago. In fact, I would say that my fees have increased exponentially and all of this due to technology and an incredible team.

I was reminded of how blessed we are in this industry just the other day. I was at an appraisal inspection when one of my best friends from high school rolled up. He was not there for a social call. When I say “rolled up” I mean he was driving a large sewer truck. He was there to pump out the septic tank. As I watched/smelled him do his job, I was reminded why I went into the appraisal field. Now, it is not a fair comparison for sure. The number of hours in education, training, experience do not allow for an apples to apples snapshot, but I think you get the point. He probably made about $65 during the same time I was making twice that.

Next time you hear another appraiser (or yourself) complain about our low pay, remember the whole truth. We do ourselves a huge disfavor when we (wittingly or not) choose to look at only one part of the equation. All things considered, we do fairly well as appraisers.

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About Dustin Harris

Dustin Harris
Dustin Harris is a successful, self-employed, residential real estate appraiser. He has been appraising for nearly two decades. He is the owner and President of Appraisal Precision and Consulting Group, Inc., and is a popular author, speaker and consultant. He also owns and operates The Appraiser Coach where he personally advises and mentors other appraisers helping them to also run successful appraisal companies and increase their net worth. His free podcast can be listened to on iTunes and Stitcher. He and his wife reside in Idaho with their four children. He loves playing in the outdoors and watching movies indoors.

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34 comments

  1. Avatar

    Dustin, many including myself have a 180 degree different opinion as it relates too many of your points, podcast, and blogs. In fact, many appraisers have had the exact opposite path throughout their professional career compared to you.
    You have come from a one man shop doing it all, too now having a team assisting you with the process, while most appraisers have come from shared offices or mom & pop / family appraisal shops, to now being on their own (not by choice but by regulation). If you have gained efficiency from this process, then you surly understand that with the reversal for most, that we’ve lost efficiency.
    Your insistence that technology today is somehow so much better than years past is also a misstatement for many. Dating back almost 20 years ago we were using personal digital assistant (PDA’s) in the field to directly collect data, draw sketches and to take digital photos. GPS has also been around since the early 2,000’s. Your assumption for your argument seems to assume that no technology was available or used in years past and all available technology is being used today. This may help your argument (no raise) but for many, this is simply not true.
    If you also look at customary gross fees today via surveys that do not include know AMC’s (20% of the market) and come up with a rate of $400, what is the combined average gross fee when you calculate the 80% of the work that gets filtered via AMC’s? If the AMC’s are paying in the $200 to $350 range (via split fees), then in my opinion the combined average fee might in the ballpark of $300. Simply based on gross fees in my area in 1996 ($400 1004 / $700 1025) versus what is average today ($300 / $500), I have ample support to not only show there has been no raise, but to show you a decline in gross fees.
    The above information does not even take into account the expense side of things where often the expenses have doubled or tripled. Don’t even get me started in comparing the entry into the field today (college/loss of income due to time 6.5 years $200,000 to $300,000) versus the easy and low bar settings from 20 years ago.
    Dustin, you are again taking YOUR path into this profession and falsely applying it to all that hold an appraisers license. Turning squares into circles.

  2. Avatar

    The ONLY way I’m making more money is due to my separating out on my own to become a “independent” appraiser. But Dustin, once again you side with the parties that are “not appraisers”. You have a staff preparing your appraisals…….good luck, I believe you’re on thin ice there but you run your life the way you want. AMC’S “skim” 30-40% of the appraisers fee for the privilege of working for them (if that is the work you want). Chasing attorneys for divorce work, or being a tax advocate is also a no go as far as I’m concerned. That is like putting your head on the chopping block and daring them not to take off your head. Direct work from the lenders is highly preferred. But most use AMC’s, so back to the skimmers. Some “charge” or skim more than the what the loan sharks on the street charge for their “vig”. Some then want to charge “technology fees or delivery fees” on top of their skimming. The AMC’s are constantly pressuring to take lower fees. Meanwhile; taxes are up, cost of living is up, scope creep is up, renewal and class price are up. Everything goes up except what the AMC’S offer for the joy of working for them. Never mind the expanding regulations. A report 19 years ago was approximately 15-20 pages (including photos) now 32-40 pages. More equals more time regardless of the technology advances that you tout.
    x
    The ONLY way is obtain higher fees is by all the appraisers collectively “STOP” accepting work and “tell” the AMC”s that their “fee offered” is no longer “reasonable nor customary”.
    Appraisers are their own worst enemies when it comes to this. Because there are those that will think: “Go ahead and refuse the fee, they will send them to me and I will be flooded with work”.
    x
    But think on this low fee appraisers: You STOP accepting assignments with a low fee. If they want an appraisal, they will be forced to pay more. Pay YOU MORE for the same work you’re already doing. You’re professionals, act that way!!!!
    x
    Back to reality, I just woke up and there are appraisers who will continue to accept the low fees for volume work. Beat themselves to death and complain about low fees. Stop being part of the problem and be part of the solution!!!!!

  3. Avatar

    Dustin, I have to be honest this is one of the stupidest articles you have ever written. I grew up in a very nice County in Northern Virginia attended a top university and have been an appraiser for nearly 30 years. I don’t have anybody in my circle of friends that drives a freaking sewer truck I do however have many friends who have had exemplary careers made tons of money have legitimate government pensions and many other perks I will never have as an appraiser. I’m not picking on you brother but you are being ridiculous to be comparing the fact that we should be glad we’re appraisers making the same money we made in 1991 and be happy about it because I’m not some dumb-ass driving a sewer truck. Dude too many more of these these articles and I won’t be able to stomach another one. You are insulting a lot of people’s intelligence.

  4. Avatar

    I agree with you all. Although I have been able to get my fees back up to where they were in 2005, my appraisal report is now a minimum of 35-40 pages long as opposed to the 26 it used to be. Also, most of the orders I get have 7+ pages of crap that the lender want’s. We have to be the most mistrusted industry in existence. I am now forced to take photos of garage interior, electrical panels, heat pumps and every single crevice in a home. I just got a correction request to address the peeling paint around the smoke detector, it was a textured ceiling with no peeling paint. Another ten minutes to add an addendum and upload the report for the most ridiculous request. This happens all the time and at our expense.
    The government, in my opinion did something that cannot be constitutional and transferred power to the banks as far as I am concerned. What other independent field, free market field has this happened to? Basically they took all of your clients, transferred them somewhere else and gave no compensation for the clients you had worked so hard to get. I cannot think of any other professional business that this has happened to. The government over reached for a few bad apples and drove most shops out of business because they were no longer able to do fee splits. How come I never hear anybody address this issue?
    Yes, can I make good money doing this job, correct. But at what expense? 70 hour work weeks, no vacation and no health insurance. Deduct this from your $400 fee and how much are you really making? It is time for appraisers to speak up and stop taking ridiculous fees. I know many places have a lot of appraisers and a lot of competition, but this is no reason to short change yourself.

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      Yes, well said Matt.

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      I really do not know how to respond to this idiotic article. I started before you with a Secretary and typewriter. I inspected 4 properties per day (1986), wrote four that afternoon at $250 each. There were no comp photos, market conditions, property histories – Banks trusted us!!!. Hardly no bad loans and I know because prior to my appraisal profession, I was the Director of Residential Lending for a Bank. So, from 1986 through about 2005, I consistently made $100K to $150K per year. I work the same number of hours, use all the latest technology, in fact I am a Board Member of our State Appraisal Board. Since 2005 until today, my income, at best is half of that. Keep taking the happy pills, it must really help!

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      Matt I was just writing the same response. It used to be front street rear. “Technology” now allows them to ask for 20-30 pics and then commentary on each picture because no one can figure out what a kitchen looks like. Then the endless addendums because they don’t like what they saw in the picture.

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      Very true! All my living expenses have gone up over the years. I am having to work longer hours and do more jobs because the standard of living has gone up!!! My hairdresser has raised her fees, my gardener has raised his fees, yet my fees because of the AMC’s and banks control have remained flat. PVC Murcur still sends out blasts for $200 appraisals….and the sad thing is, somebody is always willing to accept them. How can the industry improve if some appraisers are still willing to work for sub-standard fees. It is just crazy.

  5. Avatar

    Not buying it. The appliance repair man makes more money. They have been raising their fee’s every year. Hell my hot tub tech charges $95-$125.00 just to come out & diagnose the problem. These are not considered white collar but skilled labor! Thanks to the Appraiser Coalitions appraiser are voicing in #’s that we are done with the moot arguments of what should be a free market on fee’s. Reasonable & Customary.The AMC’s lost and that front trying to use their polls on what is Customary fee’s. The better the equipment my dentist uses the faster he gets me in and out of the chair. Ask him or her to take less?? My question is why do you not research the education of appraiser’s? Unless you take University classes by a schooled teacher it is hit and miss on the quality of education appraiser’s receive. @2ndly, lets take the income approach, cram it in a 30 hour week when in a university setting that would be 1-quarter class of 3-4 credits. It is time that the real issue’s about being and becoming a highly regarded professional in a highly respected profession to the table. Then we will be able to be recognized & paid for our experience & client base who appreciates our attention to detail, our hard work, long hours & gives us a business we can sell when we retire…..Out with the AMC’s. . P.S. Attorney’s in our state pay a state license renewal fee of $125.00. Appraiser’s $345.00 Just another area where appraisers have been bent over. Best Regards.

  6. Avatar

    There is no more obtuse statement in this country than “ever heard of the free market”. It’s doubly so coming from an appraiser who is supposed to understand the concept thoroughly.
    Free market transactions first and foremost involve two parties both acting prudently and in their best interests with equal motivation.
    In what world do you see appraiser’s as having the same leverage as the entire banking industry?

    So in Dustin’s world, you simply tell the lenders that you need $500-$625 for this assignment and they weigh all factors and determine that they need you and the quality that you bring, agree to an amenable fee and everyone goes about their merry way.

    Anybody having that experience out there?… Hello?…

    I take it back, this article is not obtuse, it’s insulting. It implies that all appraisers receiving substandard fees just aren’t good negotiators, or not resourceful enough, or just never realized what “free market” economies are all about.

    For the umpteenth time… appraisers (for lending assignments) are not free market participants, we are regulators. We should not be soliciting work from the very entities which we are intended to regulate.
    Just imagine if the same logic was used between building contractors and building code inspectors.

    But, banks have all the leverage so banks will continue to call the shots.

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      For what its worth dfabs4, Dustin and I did discuss in further detail on his site the issues in my opinion of the article.

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    Seriously? I saw the article in my email so I clicked on it and immediately looked to see who the author is. RED FLAG! I have seen the videos this guy has made, I have looked at his web page and I can’t imagine why anyone would listen to him. I have had many appraisers work for me over the years and the ones that “do it” the way this guy does were fired after a short time. I gave them a chance to do a complete report. It is my opinion this is the kind of person that makes appraisers look bad. Quantity over quality over accuracy. People like this are the reason people want us to get paid less since they think appraisals can be done in an hour or 90 minutes tops.

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    The author is a shill. The level of accuracy and hours needed to do the job right; combined with the limits of future expansion education, fees, equipment and maintenance make our industry a last choice on the road of bad choices. I personally know a septic sucker that works for himself and he makes more than I, after 70 hours a week.

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      Talk about living in your own private Idaho!! Wow! I guess everything costs the same as 20-30 years ago was well!? This logic does not fly here in the NY metro area I can tell you that. I will say no more. Think I’ll go listen to our presidential candidates right now. Makes more sense. Oh no, wait a minute, I have to work late as usual.

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        yolou, if you care to visit Dustin’s site you will find numerous posts between him and I concerning my take on cost of living (me being in SD) and how no lender, AMC, state VA fee, etc. seems to take this into account. In part, I did a detailed comparison of his area to my area and my area was 80% more expensive to live in, however his area either has the same fees (VA panel), or higher fees. Success is often not based on your ability, but your zip code.

  9. Avatar
    Retired Appraiser

    I have FAR MORE respect and admiration for your smelly septic tank cleaning friend than I do you IF you accept AMC orders (and I mean any AMC orders). Septic tank cleaners rarely participate in extortion schemes like those of you who pay out kickbacks to AMCs each month just to get work.

    Give me sweaty, smelly, honest work any day of the week over the crappy job you insist on sticking with.

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      One more comment; The majority of Banks I work with, for reason other than ignorance, require that I, the approved Appraiser, go to each inspection. That ruined my business plan. We have 3 seasoned Appraisers in my office (now moved to a small office), but we had room for up to 9 Trainees. After 50 inspections, required by our State, most Trainees can handle an inspection. The Trainee makes money and we make a little ourselves for training and review. No more. If I have to south AND north vs. the seasoned Trainee taking one of the assignments, I have no incentive to take on the Trainee. My income is now diminished and a Trainee has no where to go. There is no shortage of Appraisers, just those who refuse to get a 4 year degree, take 12 more classes, a Trainee exam, 2500 hours of apprentice work (5 years), take the Certified exam, then have no guarantee of a decent income. I lost several and told others under 40, to go find a new career if they could. I do not want to dumb down the qualifications, I just want my peers to say NO to low fees. I know, that is tough. In fact, I do not know of any Residential Appraisers now, still in the business who do not have another source of income (spouse, military retirement, etc). Dodd and Barney ( let me hold your) Frank, took away my comparative advantage as a seasoned Appraiser, “salesman”, to sell my product to my Lenders. Sure there are some Appraisers who are “bad apples”, but how many compared to the Realtors and Loan Officers we deal with. In the entire purchase process, the Realtors make thousands (4 courses, 8 hours CE, no apprenticeship), “Loan Officers” make thousands (license, minimal CE, no apprenticeship), the Attorneys make a decent fee for use of their paralegals to get online for title searches (no more going to the courthouse – in fact, we do it for them in our reports), the Title Insurance Company (never a claim), the Flood Certification Company (looks at the same FEMA maps we do, but no claims), then the Appraiser; who in actual and current dollars, based on the increase in the cost of living, make a lower fee! AND WE ARE THE EXPERTS who Realtors call when they can not decide a Listing Price (and charge that to the Seller). Yet, we are the bad guys. I had a nice e-mail from a Lawyer who hired me to do an Estate last week and I felt like I should frame it. All happy and satisfied Appraisers, raise your hand!
      Many of my peers, who have not been able to sell their houses, have filed bankruptcy. Others have used all their retirement savings to make ends meet. Remember, it was Dodd/Frank who initiated the “Affordable Houseing Law”, that essentially granted a loan to anyone, green card or not, because everyone deserves to own a house. My friends, THAT caused the housing crisis; a slight downturn in the economy, yielded a “walk-away” and foreclosures for these loans. No money in it, income drops or goes away, loan amount higher than value = walk away. The scary part; we are there again except this time, with interest rates at 3 to 4 percent, the entry house is now $250K. A downturn this time will be even more catastrophic! I predict this within two years unless we see major financial reform. (It better be a Republican President or we are in deep dodo). Dodd/Frank caused the unintended consequence of AMC’s. (well, they did not care, but we see it – by the way, has anyone seen Chris Dodd or Barney the Frank speak publically lately? Me neither. Interesting). I am a conservative, yet we need a voice, maybe a Union. The Realtors have that (heck Realtors are advertising online to give you an opinion of value, which is against the law), Bankers have the clout. My advice is to get active with your state PAC. Most every state has one. I know this; I am looking into Adjuster work. I hate my job and I can not pay the bills, after 30 years of work and living a decent lifestyle. Good luck fellow Appraisers, and God Bless you.
      Cory Gore

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      Stay retired with how ignorant you are.

  10. Avatar
    TripleFees@a_minimum

    No doubt this Dustin guy is either a lobbyist for AMC’s or owns one himself!! Get him outta here!!!!

    The well known problem with appraisers is their inability to be able to band together as a whole in order to create a strong enough voice to dictate and control their industry. No doubt the natural inclination of appraisers is to be independent and protective. Therefore, it may never happen as the rest of the real estate industry has noticed and has taken full advantage of it by making Appraisers the fall guys for anything bad that happens in the real estate industry. Appraisers get all the blame for anything that goes bad in the real estate market because, they don’t have a voice that is powerful enough to be heard. There is no cohesion in the appraisal industry. The general consensus is that everyone is out for themselves.

    The obvious solution would be to create a union for appraisers with a coop structure so the focus won’t deviate towards profits but rather, doing the right thing as a whole for appraisers. Appraisers need to band together as a whole and create their own powerful lobby and try to minimize self-interests and corruption (making sure their leaders aren’t receiving consulting fees or payoffs from AMC’s) whereby the right path is dictated for appraisers to exist with respect, dignity and just compensation for what is demanded of them in the real estate industry. Our minimum fees should be at least $800 per basic appraisal assignment for an independent appraiser.

    Good appraisers at least deserve a lawyer’s salary, not a landscaper’s salary which is where it’s currently hovering. Appraiser’s have to pay for as many professional licenses, insurance, software, continuing education, MLS/Data services, membership fees, etc., as any lawyer, doctor or any other educated and respected professional. Yet our wages are struggling to keep up with a low level blue collar worker. This is completely unacceptable and totally disrespectful to any human being including, appraisers.

    Time to wake up… appraisers!?!

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      This premise of this article is article is completely preposterous and not based in reality. This is just another another example of why I don’t usually read this Appraisalbuzz…typical lender and AMC propaganda.

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      You sound like Trump and a democrat at the same time. Wait they are one and the same. You live in a fantasy world where you pull some random number($800) out of thin air and say that should be an appraiser’s minimum fee. Here in reality appraisals have provided me with a great living and with a much higher salary than a landscaper. Time to wake up indeed…for you.

  11. Avatar

    This article is incredibly bad and paints an unrealistic picture of the industry today. Just because technology has advanced, does not mean that professionals should be making the same wage or LESS than they made 20 years ago…. somewhere the system has become flawed. Appraisers have no respect The banks charge a homeowner $750 or more for an appraisal….but by the time the appraiser is involved that fee has become $350 or even less after everyone takes a piece of it. These AMC’s should have been hired BY THE APPRAISERS to be the middlemen. Not the other way around. Banks have their hand in the AMC’s. Loan officers can pick and choose appraisers on AMC panels, and decide if they want a certain one performing their appraisals….if you don’t bring in the values, they don’t have to use you anymore. The AMC’s won’t use you if they are going to lose their bank client….so if you don’t play ball you get no work. The system is no better than before when the AMC’s weren’t involved. But our wages have now suffered because we pay a “middleman” to protect the interest of the public.

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    Dustin Harris is the reason why the appraisal industry has gone to the dogs. Let this guy pump out BS inferior appraisals at a rate of 4 per day while good appraisers take the necessary time to do the job right while barely breaking poverty level. Yeap, No professionalism from me – just like Dustin Harris, the back stabber.

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    Great article Dustin. Appraising is still fun 25 years later. Praise Jesus.

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    This article just makes me sick. Dustin obviously lives in a fantasy world. Free market? To work with an AMC you have to take less for doing more or you don’t get the work. Not to mention the fact that we don’t even know the full scope of work until we accept the substandard fee. Cheers to Virginia for passing the C&R bill!!

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    Instead of comparing ourselves to accountants, attorneys, or actuaries we are now comparing ourselves to septic tank pumpers. Very sad. Maybe the metaphor is more apt than we realize as we seem to shovel the sh## for the banks and AMCs. This guy is a clown that shills for the AMCs. His job is to tell you that the warm liquid you feel on your back is rain. There are largely two reasons to get an appraisal; dispute resolution (eminent domain, divorce, estates, law suits) and risk management (banks). When working on dispute resolution the demand is real. When working for the banks the demand is artificial (i.e. created by regulation). Diversify your practice into dispute resolution and get away from bank work. Also, join an appraisal organization (is Mr. Harris a member of any?) and actively support their lobbying efforts at the state legislatures and in Washington DC.

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    When you have to bid down on a $350 basic appraisal fee by disgusting AMC’s today, which was what I charged back in 2007 and do 25 desktops for only $60 per month, with allot more requirements on everything and then put up with review changes, makes this profession very limited for growth. I have yet been close to my yearly income of 2005-6-7-8.

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    Lots of complaining going on here. I understand the AMC issue, greater requirements, etc. But this is America, and it is a free market. You can raise your fees and get less work, you can change your client base to non-AMC’s, if any exists in your market. You can do whatever you want. Which includes NOT being an appraiser. Some of us can just be glad that they still, (as of right now), still need appraisers. If the day comes that they do not, then I will do something else. Life is short, enjoy the ride!

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    Awful article. The cost of living has increased exponentially over the last decades. Prices have increased and everyone in the industry has profited gainfully from the inflation/increase, also benefiting from faster technological means just as much as appraisers, yet the appraisal fee remains stagnant. Even worse, the average cost of an appraisal has decreased despite inflation- I averaged $460 an assignment prior to the HVCC and the implementation of AMC’s. Since then, I’ve averaged about $349 an assignment which is about a $126,000 reduction in my wages since the real estate crash. That’s about a 25-30% hit in annual income, not to mention that appraising has become more complex than ever as the result of the manic market conditions we’ve experienced. Those are the facts. I understand gratitude but this is a parallel-universe, and this society/economy is numeric/calculable in nature, hence the figures do amount to unfairness.

    This article has attempted to explain gratitude by completely rationalizing the inequality that every appraiser continues to experience. Grateful, I am in a spiritual sense. But my eyes are wide open to the inequality and corruption. The institutionalized-gratitude expressed in this poorly thought-out and inflaming article is totally rationalistic.

    Please take care on publishing future articles.

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    In 1990 when I started we had to buy film, take it to the 1 hour photo shop or drugstore, have a big expensive copier to copy every thing, and either mail it or drive and hand deliver the report (with a pen or cup with your business name on it of course)- we figured it cost $18 bucks just to produce 1 report. You do get em in and out now. Go easy on Dustin and us old timers.

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